Jessica Maya: Today’s topic is clearing clutter. It’s a topic that’s become very popular and it’s been covered by everyone from Oprah to the Style Network. Clutter has increasingly become a problem to millions of people and it leaves many feeling stressed and overwhelmed. Today we are speaking to Lindsay Kenny. Lindsay is an EFT coach and trainer and Lindsay has been coaching others for over 30 years and is the founder of the National Alliance of Emotional Health. Welcome, Lindsay.

Lindsay Kenny: Thank you, Jessica. I’m glad to be here.

Jessica Maya: How are you doing today?

Lindsay Kenny: I feel great, thanks.

Jessica Maya: Oh, good. Lindsay, we’re talking about clutter. What would you define clutter?

Lindsay Kenny: I think clutter is anything that makes people feel a little uncomfortable having people over meaning they have to stop laying around dishes that need to be washed. Not just a dirty house but stuff that piles up and accumulates over a period of time. Magazines, bills, receipts, newspapers, books, things that have no value whatsoever and yet people hang onto them. When it becomes embarrassing to people then I believe that’s when it becomes a problem.

Jessica Maya: What does clutter usually mean? What does it represent?

Lindsay Kenny: You mean the problem of clutter?

Jessica Maya: Yeah.

Lindsay Kenny: Clutter is a symptom of something. It’s very similar to almost any issue that people come to me with is a symptom for something else with very few exceptions. Just like pain, like a pain in your fingers is a symptom that there’s a splinter in your thumb or something like that. It’s the same with clutter, procrastination, depression, low self-esteem, just about any issue is a symptom. Clutter is a symptom of another problem.

People that have clutter…it’s kind of a general statement but it is true most of the time and that is they have an issue with control. You would think the opposite would be true because their life seems out of control if everything is such a mess, yet they easily have some real issue of wanting to control every single thing in their lives so the hoarding and holding onto things is their way of making sure nothing gets away from them so to speak. One of the first things that I do when somebody comes to me with clutter, when they explain that they want to clean up their home, apartment, car, office or whatever it is…their life is I start by asking when did this first start?

Almost always people will be able to say. They’ll delineate something. They’ll say ‘Oh, when I was 22.’ The next question is ‘What happened when you were 22?’ It’s usually ‘My husband left me, I got a divorce, my parents died, my friend was in a horrible accident’ or some trauma or tragedy that happened to them or moved across the country…it could be something like that. There’s usually a point that they can pick that starts the clutter problem that they seldom have associated the clutter with that incident or that trauma.

What we do is work on clearing the emotions around that trauma that let’s say it was a divorce. You would be clearing the grief, anger, frustration, resentment, sadness or whatever emotions there are about that divorce and then come back and deal with the clutter in a completely different way.

Jessica Maya: Right. What about some people who you walk into the house and they have a lot of cluttered things everywhere and when you ask them about it they don’t have a problem with it or someone who might be listening who have people comment to them about how much stuff they have but they like all this stuff.

Lindsay Kenny: Some people don’t see it as a problem at all. They feel comfortable with it. I like to collect things and I feel comfortable with it. I have seen pictures, these are the stories that you mention on Oprah and it’s just unbelievable the piles and stacks of newspapers that go up almost to the ceiling or magazines and you have to have a pathway to get from the living room to the kitchen and clothes and garbage all around and they really don’t…some people just don’t see it as a problem at all.

They didn’t all of a sudden have a truck come in and dump clutter on them, it started with one receipt, one magazine, one newspaper, one bag of trash at a time. It built up on them gradually and they hardly notice the difference. So those are not ones that would say ‘Oh, I’m embarrassed I have a problem.’ They would not probably be coming to me or any other therapist because they think it’s fine. It becomes often a health hazard. You can’t force somebody to change. They have to want to get rid of that clutter problem.

Maybe because it is kind of a hot topic today you see a lot more people that are wanting to clean it up. It’s certainly a healthy thing to do to get things organized. It goes so far, Jessica, beyond cleaning up your house. It’s just not about ‘Okay, let’s get rid of this clutter’ because you have to deal with the cause of the clutter. It’s sort of like losing weight. It’s easy to go on a diet and lose weight and you don’t deal with the issues that caused you to overeat to begin with then you’re gonna’ put the weight back on. Some people say that diets don’t work, diets is not the problem. You have to fix the underlying cause or core issue of the weight gain or the clutter or the procrastination or depression or whatever it is. I don’t know if you saw that Oprah show. Did you see the Oprah show with the lady that had the unbelievable amount of…

Jessica Maya: The recent one? It was about last week about hoarding?

Lindsay Kenny: This one, the one I saw, was an old maybe a year ago and she called it clutter as opposed to hoarding. She had dog poop in the bedroom on the bed. On the bed!! Months worth of dog poop in the bathrooms, in the kitchen…cat and birds flying around in the house and that poop all over the place and then it was…they showed pictures of the counters and the bedroom. It was the worst clutter issue I had ever seen. In fact, she was on the show looking very neat and trim and clean and you would never think this lady lived in this pigsty. It was beyond pigsty.

Oprah came in and had her crew clean out the house. They sent some people in and they took away three giant vans. No vans like delivery vans but big trucks…those moving trucks. Three of them full of stuff. If I’m not mistaken it was three tons of stuff. It may have been 30 tons. It was so much I couldn’t even wrap my mind around it. Her house just looked like a whole new place. You couldn’t even believe it. It was just pristine. They had to bring in hoses and shovels to get the stuff out. They had to wear those hazard outfits to do it. Ninety days later they checked back in with her to see how she was doing and she was almost in the same position…the same place because it wasn’t the clutter that was her problem it’s the symptom.

It turned out her husband had died when she started this and that was her way of trying to control her life. Underlying most clutter issues, Jessica, like I said is that control issue and it’s a fear of loss of control. If we deal with that fear and get rid of that underlying thing of ‘I can’t control my life and so therefore I have to hold onto everything’ then cleaning the house and getting it cleaned up is not a major thing. You can systematically do that and get a plan of how you go about cleaning it but that’s really not the problem. Again, that’s just the symptom. Does that make sense?

Jessica Maya: Yes, it does and what about someone that’s not so drastic? What about the person who everything is clean but they just have this desk or there are things everywhere?

Lindsay Kenny: It’s still a similar thing. It’s wanting to control your environment so that you don’t get hurt so that you don’t lose something that’s important to you. I’m generalizing a little bit on that, let’s say it’s just a desk or an office it could be something that they’re trying to avoid. There is something in there they don’t want to deal with. Again, I try to find the underlying cause for it. If you cleaned your desk and it was really neat and clean, then what? What would be the downside of that? Then I’d have to tackle that project that I need to get done and I just use this clutter as an excuse. I just can’t get to it because of all this stuff and then if you tackle that project then what will happen? Then that goes before the whole company for everybody’s scrutiny and I might fail. I might look stupid. Everybody has big expectations of me and I might really fall on my face or if it did well then people are gonna’ have even higher expectations of me and I might have to work harder because people would expect more and I don’t want all that attention. It gives them an excuse for not moving on in their life.

Jessica Maya: That’s a great question though the listeners can ask themselves. What would happen if this was all cleaned up? If they clutter was gone.

Lindsay Kenny: Two things. What’s the upside of it being clean and what’s the downside? Usually the downside is where the problem lies. What’s underneath that. Some people are afraid of what they might see or afraid of what people might expect of them. It’s hard to cover all the bases because there can be so many. People that are listening I would suggest you see if you can’t find a time or place or reason that started your clutter issue. I’m assuming most people that are listening to this will be having an interest in cleaning up their own clutter but it’s so far away from just systematically going through and just cleaning the house.

Jessica Maya: A lot of times clearing the clutter means throwing it away or recycling it, donating it, selling it, you know getting rid of a lot of things and going through things and that can seem like a big task for a lot of people. A lot of people now a days seem to be very attached to their things.

Lindsay Kenny: That’s true but it’s that control of wanting to control ‘I don’t want to let go of this, what if I need it down the line? What if I need this 1993 Look magazine?’ Sometimes it’ll be something that starts with holding onto items and possessions from somebody else. Their mother dies and so they clean out her closet and they hold onto things that really have no meaning and then that grows and their holding onto other things in their life. Again, it’s a fear of losing something. That fear of losing control and letting things go. ‘What if I let it go and I lose? It’s out of my control and I lose control of my life?’ It’s that fear of ‘free falling’ so to speak.

Jessica Maya: How can we start? You’re there, you have all this clutter so you’re saying you ask yourself those questions? When did it start? What’s the upside? What’s the downside?

Lindsay Kenny: What was going on at the time when it started? Sometimes it’s not until maybe six months after the fact so there might be an accident or trauma and then six months later the hoarding begins. Sometimes people will say ‘I didn’t have a problem with it. My mother was always messy. I lived in that kind of an environment but I didn’t have a clutter problem like her until she died.’ Then they have sort of like an imprint or an attachment that goes from their childhood so then they start behaving like their mother or father.

You might have to go beyond that. ‘My mother’s dying wasn’t that big of a trauma’ but if the mother was messy as well…I actually have a brother that has a clutter issue. Our mother was just the opposite. She was opposite in that she was extremely neat and clean and we weren’t allowed to keep anything. Everything had to be thrown away. No saving of anything and everything got cleaned every day. It was an obsessive kind of thing so my brother rebelled and went the other way and held onto everything. In a way he was controlling his life by holding onto the things that he might have had to throw away when he was younger. I don’t think he ever would have looked at it that way, but that’s my assessment of it.

Jessica Maya: When you pinpoint exactly what it is, do you say the story out loud? While you tap how do you go through it if you’ve figured out the circumstances of when it started?

Lindsay Kenny: Let’s use an example of a lady that came in with a clutter issue. Her’s started when she was in her mid-30s and she found that her husband was having an affair. When she confronted him with it he said he wanted a divorce and left her for a much younger woman. She got very depressed and just stayed at home for a while just didn’t do anything. Her kitchen started piling up with dishes and the bathroom was not being cleaned.

She didn’t have a will to live almost. But then it escalated from there into just clutter and never throwing anything away. She was really very depressed. When she came out of the depression she still had the clutter and she still continued to hoard things. We tapped on getting over that hurt, pain and betrayal of the divorce. That was the beginning. Would you like me to lead you through that process?

Jessica Maya: Yeah, let’s go for it and listener’s tap along and borrow benefit.

Lindsay Kenny: Do they know…do I need to explain borrowing benefits do you think?

Jessica Maya: No. Actually if you go to the instruction part of the tapping we have a little explanation of it.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, good.

Jessica Maya: You know what? Go ahead. If you can say it real quick.

Lindsay Kenny: It’s really easy. The way you borrow benefits is to write down your issues. You can remember or think of a time when this might have started, the tragedy or trauma or the problem that might have happened that would have started your clutter issue. Then you name that…the move across the country, my parents divorce, the accident, dad’s death, whatever it was. You give that an intensity number of how strong your emotions are about that incident…ten being really high and all the way down to zero. It’s really important to write it down and give it a name for some reason. This is a not op. ‘I benefit’ is kind of a phenomena that works anyway. You can tap on some completely different issue. We could be taping on the pain in your left ankle and you could be working on your clutter problem and have the number of the intensity go down.

Jessica Maya: Because it’s on an unconscious level?

Lindsay Kenny: Yes, because it’s the subconscious we’re working with and tapping puts your brain into this place which is a little bit like where you go when you’re being hypnotized. You’re not hypnotizing yourself but it just puts you in a relaxed state and allows you to reprogram your subconscious. The writing it down is really important, not just saying it in your brain. Writing it down ‘trauma over my parents’ death, trauma over my divorce’ or whatever it is and giving it an intensity number.

Some people say ‘I don’t know what my intensity is?’ Then guess. Say ‘Even though I don’t know what my intensity is, if I had to guess I would say it was a…’ If you have a problem like clutter as a result of it then it’s probably either a nine or ten. It’s still traumatized and stuck in your system. Write down the number and then set it aside. Do not try to focus on it while we’re tapping on something else. Completely put it aside and then every few minutes when we talk about reassessing your intensity go back and look at what your number is and see if the number has come down. That’s the first thing we do.

The next thing we do, Jessica, this is really important and very few other practitioners do this except for the ones that I’ve trained and that is neutralize the subconscious resistance to change. The subconscious resistance to change. Everybody has it or we wouldn’t have problems. To do that I call that a reversal. A secondary benefit syndrome. There’s the subconscious wanting to hang onto a problem. The first thing we do after you identify an issue is neutralize that reversal. On the karate chop point, that’s at the base of the little finger on the fleshy side of the hand you tap those against each other. I like to tap with both hands on both sides of the body at the same time for maximum results. You want me to just go through that, Jessica?

Jessica Maya: Yeah, let’s go for it.

Lindsay Kenny: On the karate chop point…why don’t you repeat it after me so that when people are listening they’ll be repeating it as well?

Jessica Maya: Perfect.

Lindsay Kenny: On the karate chop point say: even though.

Jessica Maya: Even though.

Lindsay Kenny: I don’t want to let go of this trauma.

Jessica Maya: I don’t want to let go of this trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Just use that general word that people have written down their own issues. Does that make sense?

Jessica Maya: Yep.

Lindsay Kenny: I don’t want to let go of this trauma.

Jessica Maya: I don’t want to let go of this trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: I do want to love and accept myself.

Jessica Maya: I do want to love and accept myself.

Lindsay Kenny: Even though for whatever reason.

Jessica Maya: Even though for whatever reason.

Lindsay Kenny: I don’t want to let go of this trauma.

Jessica Maya: I don’t want to let go of this trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Maybe it would be letting go of part of my identity.

Jessica Maya: Maybe it would be letting go of part of my identity.

Lindsay Kenny: Maybe it would be dishonoring someone.

Jessica Maya: Maybe it would be dishonoring someone.

Lindsay Kenny: Maybe I’m afraid to let it go.

Jessica Maya: Maybe I’m afraid to let it go.

Lindsay Kenny: Maybe it’s not safe to let it go.

Jessica Maya: Maybe it’s not safe to let it go.

Lindsay Kenny: Maybe it gives me an excuse.

Jessica Maya: Maybe it give me an excuse.

Lindsay Kenny: Whatever the reason.

Jessica Maya: Whatever the reason.

Lindsay Kenny: I don’t want to get over that trauma.

Jessica Maya: I don’t want to get over that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: But I do want to love and accept who I am today.

Jessica Maya: But I do want to love and accept who I am today.

Lindsay Kenny: One more time. Even though for many reasons.

Jessica Maya: Even though for many reasons.

Lindsay Kenny: Or for whatever reason I don’t know.

Jessica Maya: Or for whatever reason I don’t know.

Lindsay Kenny: I don’t want to let go of that trauma.

Jessica Maya: I don’t want to let go of that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: That started this clutter problem.

Jessica Maya: That started this clutter problem.

Lindsay Kenny: But I do want to love and accept who I am.

Jessica Maya: But I do want to love and accept who I am.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, good. Again, that is very different from a set-up statement and very different from what Gary talks about…Gary Craig talks about as a psychological reversal. This particular way is dealing with the subconscious resistance to changing or letting go of something. I start just about every session and every issue with a reversal. It makes the session go much faster.

The majority of emails that I get from new people doing EFT and saying ‘I’m trying and it’s not working I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.’ It’s usually that they haven’t found the core issue or that they haven’t dealt with the reversal, the subconscious resistance to wanting to change. Then that’s still on the karate chop and some people use the sore spot on the chest for the setup statement but I use the karate chop. It’s just easier to find for most people. Now the setup statement is slightly different and that would be…even though after all these years.

Jessica Maya: Even though after all these years.

Lindsay Kenny: I’m still affected by that trauma.

Jessica Maya: I’m still affected by that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: I do want to love and accept who I am.

Jessica Maya: I do want to love and accept who I am.

Lindsay Kenny: Even though I still have an intensity.

Jessica Maya: Even though I still have an intensity.

Lindsay Kenny: On that trauma years ago.

Jessica Maya: On that trauma years ago.

Lindsay Kenny: I do love and accept myself completely.

Jessica Maya: I do love and accept myself completely.

Lindsay Kenny: Do that one more time so you repeat that three times and then lets do the tapping now on the points. We start with the eyebrow point with as many fingers as you can get on both of the eyebrows at the very beginning of the eyebrow above the nose. Tap there and just say a reminder statement. Since people are tapping on their own, they can actually say their issue rather than just borrowing benefits and saying trauma. Instead of saying ‘this trauma’ they can say ‘that accident’ or ‘my parents divorce’ or ‘my divorce’ or something like that. I’m going to leave that up to you. I’m just gonna’ say ‘this trauma.’ Is that okay?

Jessica Maya: Yes, perfect.

Lindsay Kenny: On the eyebrows. This trauma.

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Then moving the fingers to the very corner of the outside of the eyes where the bone is…just before the eye socket right in the corner of the eyes say ‘this trauma.’

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: The bone underneath the eyes on both sides all the fingers. This trauma.

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: One hand under the nose. This trauma.

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Same on the chin. This trauma.

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: The fingers just slightly under the collar bone about three inches out from the middle. This trauma.

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Same thing under the arms about four or five inches under the armpit on both sides. This trauma.

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Then the liver point is a point that I add because I learned EFT from an acupuncturist and she taught me the value of using the liver point. Gary used to use it in his earlier DVDs and it’s about three inches under the nipple or for women it’s just about where the wire is under their bra strap on the right and left side. If you can only tap with one hand then do it on the right side where the actual liver is. It’s above the bottom of the rib cage. Tap there and say ‘this trauma.’

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: On the wrist there are three points on the wrist. The heart, the lung and the peridium meridians where the hand bends to meet the arm and tap those points together so your palms are facing each other and your hands are out in a ‘V’ position. The reason I tap on the wrist and on the liver point is because that takes up an additional four meridians that are really important. It covers grief, stress, anger, frustration and sadness. Those are pretty important emotions to deal with but you get four points just on two meridians. Tap there and say ‘this trauma.’

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Then all the fingers on the top of the head another additional point. Tap there and say ‘this trauma.’

Jessica Maya: This trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Now twirl. The young meridians meet so it’s another important connecting point. By picking up those three extra meridians you’re tapping on all 14 of the major meridian points which is 56% more than just stopping underneath the arm. It’s not essential. People get results just doing the nine meridians but I find you get faster more effective results by doing all of them and it only takes a few seconds longer.

Jessica Maya: A few seconds longer, right.

Lindsay Kenny: Then I do the second round being more specific and taking up different aspects. It’s a little bit challenging to do when we’re not working on a particular subject but let’s just say it’s the issue of divorce or somebody that hurt you. If people that are working with us could just go along with us and say the same thing that’ll work just as fine or they can vent on their own. Jessica, you do it with me on the eyebrow. It really hurt me.

Jessica Maya: It really hurt me.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. I was so disappointed.

Jessica Maya: I was so disappointed.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. I felt so betrayed.

Jessica Maya: I felt so betrayed.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. It wasn’t fair.

Jessica Maya: It wasn’t fair.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. It really hurt me.

Jessica Maya: It really hurt me.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. It changed my life.

Jessica Maya: It changed my life.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. It’s affected me for so long.

Jessica Maya: It’s affected me for so long.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. I want to let it go now.

Jessica Maya: I want to let it go now.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. I want to put that trauma behind me.

Jessica Maya: I want to put that trauma behind me.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. I want to claim my life back.

Jessica Maya: I want to claim my life back.

Lindsay Kenny: Then you take a deep breath. Anybody listening to this take a deep breath that kind of helps pop the meridians open and reassess your numbers. So those that are borrowing benefits look down at your number and see if it changed even though we’re tapping on something really vague. The number should have come down to a seven or an eight. It’s pretty common that it would drop about two or three points assuming we started at a ten. If it hasn’t, don’t worry. We’re doing a very general statement. Then we would go back again, Jessica, and do kind of the same thing changing the wording just slightly. Do you want to do it?

Jessica Maya: Yeah, let’s go for it.

Lindsay Kenny: Back on the setup point on the karate chop. Even though.

Jessica Maya: Even though.

Lindsay Kenny: There’s still a big part of me holding onto that trauma.

Jessica Maya: There’s still a big part of me holding onto that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: There is a smaller braver part of me that’s starting to let go.

Jessica Maya: There is a smaller braver part of me that’s starting to let go.

Lindsay Kenny: I want to let that little part of me win.

Jessica Maya: I want to let that little part of me win.

Lindsay Kenny: Because I think I want to let go of this trauma.

Jessica Maya: Because I think I want to let go of this trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Reclaim my life.

Jessica Maya: Reclaim my life.

Lindsay Kenny: I love and accept myself for that.

Jessica Maya: I love and accept myself for that.

Lindsay Kenny: On the eyebrow I go all the way around saying the same statement. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Eyebrows. I want to let go of that trauma.

Jessica Maya: I want to let go of that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. I want my life back.

Jessica Maya: I want my life back.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. I want to let go of this pain.

Jessica Maya: I want to let go of this pain.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. I want to let go of the betrayal.

Jessica Maya: I want to let go of the betrayal.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. No I don’t.

Jessica Maya: No I don’t.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. I want to punish them with it.

Jessica Maya: I want to punish them with it.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. I don’t want to let it go.

Jessica Maya: I don’t want to let it go.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. Yes, I do.

Jessica Maya: Yes, I do.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. I’m sick of living like this.

Jessica Maya: I’m sick of living like this.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. I’m ready to let it go now.

Jessica Maya: I’m ready to let it go now.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, good. Take another deep breath. I’m pretty systematic the way I tap because it just works for me. You’ll see a hundred different ways. Other Masters…there are 28 of us…we all have a different way of doing it. I kind of live on being effective and efficient and so after thousands of clients I’ve just come up with this system that works pretty well.

What you say is different with each person and certainly I go different directions but it’s really simple for me and easy to teach and others to learn to do a setup, two rounds, reassess the number, do another setup, two more rounds, reassess the number until you’re inching your way down until you get to a zero. A lot of people will stop when they start feeling better. They get down to a five or six and say ‘That feels better.’ Then they let it go and then the issue is still there and it comes back and they’ll say ‘It didn’t work for me’ so it’s very important to get it to zero. Typically now after two rounds, two complete double rounds the number will probably be around a five or a six. We’d reassess it again and so now we change the wording again slightly and on the karate chops…shall I just keep going, Jessica?

Jessica Maya: Yeah, keep going.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, if you have any questions don’t fail to ask.

Jessica Maya: Okay, I’m just enjoying the ride.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, so on the karate chop. Even though.

Jessica Maya: Even though.

Lindsay Kenny: Half of me has let go of this trauma.

Jessica Maya: Half of me has let go of this trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: There’s another stubborn half hanging on.

Jessica Maya: There’s another stubborn half hanging on.

Lindsay Kenny: But that’s okay.

Jessica Maya: But that’s okay.

Lindsay Kenny: Because the smarter part of me has already let go.

Jessica Maya: Because the smarter part of me has already let go.

Lindsay Kenny: And I give myself permission to let it all go.

Jessica Maya: And I give myself permission to let it all go.

Lindsay Kenny: Because I do love and respect who I am.

Jessica Maya: Because I do love and respect who I am.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, good. Some people do three of those setups. After the very first round I usually only do one. I think you’ll find it’s just pre-framing where you’re going. So on the eyebrows again first round I repeat the same simple reminder statement. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Okay, on the eyebrows you vent again. On the second round I usually vent a little and that’s just up to the person whatever they want to say about it. Because we get a lot of aspects in on that. Let’s just vent a little bit more. It wasn’t fair.

Jessica Maya: It wasn’t fair.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. It just wasn’t fair.

Jessica Maya: It just wasn’t fair.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. It wasn’t my fault.

Jessica Maya: It wasn’t my fault.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. It really wasn’t my fault.

Jessica Maya: It really wasn’t my fault.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. I blamed myself all these years.

Jessica Maya: I blamed myself all these years.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. But it really wasn’t my fault.

Jessica Maya: But it really wasn’t my fault.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. I want to forgive myself.

Jessica Maya: I want to forgive myself.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. And I want to forgive them.

Jessica Maya: And I want to forgive them.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. I really want to let this go.

Jessica Maya: I really want to let this go.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. I give myself permission to put this behind me.

Jessica Maya: I give myself permission to put this behind me.

Lindsay Kenny: Take another deep breath. By now the number is usually down to a two, three or four. When it gets to three or less then I switch to Pat Carrington’s choice statement and just a very simple variation of the wording that kind of packs more punch because you’re taking back control of the situation. With clutter, that’s your whole issue. You want to maintain control but yet you’ve lost control.

Jessica Maya: Okay.

Lindsay Kenny: On the setup phrase. Even though.

Jessica Maya: Even though.

Lindsay Kenny: There’s a small part of me holding onto the trauma.

Jessica Maya: There’s a small part of me holding onto the trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: A much bigger smarter part of me has already let go.

Jessica Maya: A much bigger smarter part of me has already let go.

Lindsay Kenny: I choose to let that part of me prevail.

Jessica Maya: I choose to let that part of me prevail.

Lindsay Kenny: I choose to heal the pain from that trauma.

Jessica Maya: I choose to heal the pain from that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: To let go of all the frustration, anger, resentment and betrayal.

Jessica Maya: To let go of all the frustration, anger, resentment and betrayal.

Lindsay Kenny: I choose to love and accept myself unconditionally.

Jessica Maya: I choose to love and accept myself unconditionally.

Lindsay Kenny: On the eyebrows. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. Remaining trauma.

Jessica Maya: Remaining trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Eyebrows. I choose to let it go.

Jessica Maya: I choose to let it go.

Lindsay Kenny: Outside of the eyes. I choose to heal that trauma.

Jessica Maya: I choose to heal that trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the eyes. I choose to let go of that pain.

Jessica Maya: I choose to let go of that pain.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the nose. I choose to be free.

Jessica Maya: I choose to be free.

Lindsay Kenny: Chin. I choose to let go of that anger and resentment.

Jessica Maya: I choose to let go of that anger and resentment.

Lindsay Kenny: Collar Bone. For my sake.

Jessica Maya: For my sake.

Lindsay Kenny: Under the arms. I choose to forgive everybody involved.

Jessica Maya: I choose to forgive everybody involved.

Lindsay Kenny: Liver. I choose to love and accept myself unconditionally.

Jessica Maya: I choose to love and accept myself unconditionally.

Lindsay Kenny: Wrists. I choose to look toward the future rather than the past.

Jessica Maya: I choose to look toward the future rather than the past.

Lindsay Kenny: Top of the head. I choose to completely eliminate the trauma.

Jessica Maya: I choose to completely eliminate the trauma.

Lindsay Kenny: Good. Take a deep breath and then the third round of choices and I’m just gonna’ tell you how to do that if that’s okay?

Jessica Maya: Yep, go for it.

Lindsay Kenny: I want to get to the mechanics of the clutter stuff. The third round is alternating the two first ones. The first round is negative…remaining clutter, remaining clutter. The second round is positive…choosing to let it go and choosing to forgive people. The third round you alternate those two…remaining clutter on the eyebrows and then outside the eyes I choose to let it go…remaining trauma…I choose to forget and forgive. Just alternate between a negative and positive all the way around. Usually that will get somebody to one or a zero. If there’s still a little bit left you just do one or two more rounds putting in positive statements about letting it go…

Jessica Maya: And it’s really that easy?

Lindsay Kenny: It’s really that easy. Sometimes it’s harder when somebody is working with themselves because they don’t have the perspective. When you’re working with a practitioner they can see around corners. It’s a little bit like the best surgeon in the world would not be able to remove their own appendix. They couldn’t see and they couldn’t deal with the pain while they’re doing it. It’s the same with a dentist trying to give himself a root canal. Sometimes people won’t go. They’re afraid of pain and they won’t even go there.

Sometimes they won’t even remember what the trauma is because they blocked it out. If they know what that delineation is, that point where it started and they clear that first, then that’s the first thing necessary. Again, it’s like losing weight or anything else. If you deal with the underlying reason then it makes the mechanic part of it, the actual cleaning up of the place a piece of cake. Once you get it clean then you want to stay that way. That’s all there is to it. Sometimes it’ll be another little aspect, there may be another some other little thing ‘Well, it wasn’t just my parents divorce and my brother died in a motorcycle accident’ or ‘I got sick’ or sometimes another thing got in the way. It’s often multiple issues especially with death. Somebody dies and then somebody else dies on top of that a few months later and the pain is exacerbated from it.

Sometimes there’s even a third tragedy…the house burned down or a flood or something and it’s just too much for somebody. You want to deal with all of those traumas like we just did. Then, you’re faced with ‘Okay, now my house is a mess. What do I do?’ Now I have people write down what they want. Now you write down a statement I call it…we’re not gonna’ have enough time to go through this whole thing, but you can find audios on my website on doing the ultimate truth statement. Basically the way you do it is write out what you do want. People tend to focus, Jessica, on what they don’t want which keeps them stuck in that. They focus on debt or the weight or the clutter and say ‘Now I gotta’ get out of this’ and that keeps them really stuck in it.

I use the Law of Attraction a lot and it’s based on, and I know you know this Jessica, but it’s based on getting what you focus on. So if you focus on clutter you’re gonna’ get more clutter and it keeps you stuck. Write out a simple statement that says ‘I want a clean, neat orderly home’ or office or car. That’s your basic simple statement. Then you go back and add to that statement the reasons…how would your life be different if your house was completely clean and neat and orderly. I have people write down ‘Well, I could find things more easily, I could have people come over, I’d feel a lot less pressure, I’d feel more secure, I’d have some pride and ownership of the house, I could sell it, I could paint it.’

It’s just ways that their life would be different. Then I have them add in emotions and how would that make you feel if you had a clean, neat house? What are the emotions that would evoke? Most people would feel pride, more confidence about having guests or just feeling better about themselves, feel more secure. What emotions do you think people would have, Jessica?

Jessica Maya: I just think clarity, peace, a sense of being proud of yourself and proud of where you live and not needing to avoid having people over.

Lindsay Kenny: Actually the name of my teleclass is Clearing Clutter for Clarity and Confidence. All those ‘C’ words. When you have that clutter it keeps us from seeing sometimes what we don’t want to see.

Jessica Maya: I know from personal experience that when I did clear the clutter it just made a huge difference. Even going through…I just recently went through my whole closet and said that I would give…even things that I liked but just didn’t wear…I just gave them away. It’s tough. You have to put it in a bag and then you have to get rid of it as soon as possible before you start rummaging through that bag and you find that it’s such a freeing feeling.

Lindsay Kenny: It really is and all of a sudden you have more energy, more clarity, more peace of mind and more joy in your life. You take all of those words and you put those now into the basic statement. You take out the ‘I want to.’ Instead of ‘I want to have a clean, neat, orderly house’ you add in the emotions and you add in the lifestyle change as the differences in your life. You would say ‘I have more clarity, peace of mind and confidence now that I have a clean, neat, orderly house. I have more freedom, more time, more focus, more pride in myself and I feel lighter, my life is easier, I have more energy now that my home is clean. I choose to make it easy.’

Jessica Maya: Do you find that when, before you go to that part and your clearing the trauma, do you find that once they clear it and they get to the zero that they naturally want it clean?

Lindsay Kenny: Yes, because then there’s no reason to hold onto things or hoard it. Sometimes I need to tap on being willing to let go of control or the fear of losing control. Remember, I mentioned at the beginning underneath that is a control issue so sometimes just clearing up the trauma will let go of all of that. Sometimes we need to go in and clean up the fear. Underlying a lot of problems is fear.

Fear keeps us from getting most of the things we want in life. Fear of failure, fear of loss, fear of rejection, fear of looking foolish, fear of success and sometimes another thing people have to clear is that fear of loss or fear of losing control. When that is gone, then they look around and go ‘This isn’t okay with me anymore having this thing.’ Then you focus on the positive statement of ‘I have a clean orderly house, peace of mind, joy in my life, an incredible clarity and confidence’ and that is so much easier to focus on instead of ‘I have to forget…’

Jessica Maya: Yeah, you’re making it fun. It almost seems exciting like you have this new mission.

Lindsay Kenny: Exactly. Then the mechanics of it become really easy. We tap on attracting having a clean house and then it’s really interesting how it will just fall into place. Somebody will show up in your life and that’s what kind of work they do. They come in and they help or friends or…there’s a mechanics of how you actually go about it are like a whole other session but the simple version is you really do set time aside.

People will look at it as such a humungous project that they don’t even know where to get started. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. You start with one room in the house, a bedroom, kitchen, bathroom or something like that and you systematically clean that out and you have three piles of stuff. You literally have big giant boxes or big bags, get friends over, have pizza and beer or something and have them help you out and put things in three different piles: must keep, have to have and can’t live without.

Jessica Maya: Do you need these five pairs of pajamas?

Lindsay Kenny: Yeah, they’re torn or from 1970…so you have to have this one, absolutely throw away and then another pile of donate. Sometimes what you think is garbage can be somebody else’s treasure. Some people say ‘I’m on a fourth pile: sell on EBay. It makes it easier and you have to make a decision right there. Once the decision is made a lot of people say ‘I’ll come back to this and I’ll decide later, let me just put this in another pile.’ Nope!! Decide right then if you’re keeping it, throwing it away or whatever.

I like Jerry and Esther Hicks has a great idea about it’s way to go into but it’s in their CD series Ask and it is Given. They go through the systematic way of doing it where you actually put everything in a box and label what’s in that box and put it on the shelf, things you don’t think you can let go of…hair curlers or broken something or stuff that you’re just not sure you might need it in the future…guitar strings. You have that labeled on the box everything that’s in that box and you put them on the shelves in the garage and if you don’t need those after six months then you donate those boxes away too. For some people who have a hard time letting go of stuff ‘What if I need it down the line?’ That’s the way to do it. You’ll find that sometimes three years will go by and you didn’t need those guitar strings or shoe laces.

Jessica Maya: I’ll tell you when I was cleaning out this closet I was giving away some stuff that was tough for me to give away but I gave it away and two days later I go into New York, I visit my friend and I go into her apartment and it’s full of bags and she goes ‘I’m giving away some clothes. I really like it but I don’t wear it as much.’ There were four beautiful cashmere sweaters. I’ve never owned a cashmere sweater. I was like ‘Thank you’ and suddenly it all came back and I just had all these new clothes and it’s like everything came back. It really is an amazing feeling and I feel like magic happens when you start letting go of those things.

Lindsay Kenny: That is a really interesting point. It’s true, when you let go of some of your garbage you will find that you will get treasures into your life. When you’re hoarding stuff it’s hard for something new to come in.

Jessica Maya: You’re not making any room for it.

Lindsay Kenny: That’s right. You don’t have room in your life. I think Deepak Chopra or somebody talks about if you have…it’s Wayne Dyer…if you have a handful of peanuts and somebody offers you a gourmet meal of steak, you can’t reach out and grab it because your hand is full of peanuts. You gotta’ let go of the peanuts first. There’s something psychically or universal about that. If you let go and clear out the clutter then you’re open to more abundance in your life. I’ve heard some terrific stories. That’s a great one that you just told about the cashmere sweaters. Likewise the stuff that you let go of…somebody else is going to be delighted to get. It really comes all the way around.

If you stay focused on that positive statement, the ultimate truth statement of what you want instead of what you want to get rid of…the clutter, the litter, the garbage, this mess, and this is so hard and you choose to make it easy and stay focused on what you want…having a clean, neat orderly house and all of the bounty that brings makes the process much easier. I use that same process for people that want to lose weight. Instead of focusing on ‘I gotta’ go on a diet and exercise and give up the foods I love and lose 50 pounds,’ we focus on the goal weight they want to be at and all of the benefits to that…feeling healthy, energetic, buying new clothes, looking good in their jeans. It’s the same principle of going toward anything that you want. You focus on what you want instead of what you’re trying to get rid of.

Jessica Maya: Right.

Lindsay Kenny: It shifts and makes a huge impact and a huge difference in where you go in. I tap all along the way on all of that stuff too. Tap on that statement ‘I choose to have a clean, orderly, neat house.’ Once you get that statement you then tap on the positive. There’s an element in between that once you get that statement say ‘Now what’s in the way now? What part of me is going do I really want that,’ I’m afraid of letting it go or am I afraid of failing and not actually have it happen but my mother or somebody come over and say ‘you got rid of all your beautiful things.’

Sometimes there will be some resistance to having that statement be true. It’s a wonderful sounding statement and underlying there’s a little gut feeling saying ‘I don’t know.’ Whatever that is needs to be cleared up. A fear of tackling it, a fear of loss. That’s when the fear of control often comes up. ‘I don’t have that stuff any more what if I need it?’ Stop and tap on that negative feeling and that’s an important element to going toward the positive. Sometimes there’s nothing there you just say ‘Yeah, that’s what I want. I want that clean orderly house.’ You stay focused on that and then the mechanics of how it happens just falls into place.

Pat Carrington developed a choice statement said use this as a statement: ‘I choose to surprise myself by coming up with an incredibly creative way to have a clean, neat, orderly house.’ I actually…you have to be careful what you wish for…I tapped on that phrase one time about my basement. I had clutter and needed to clean it out. At first my house was fine and I just tapped on ‘I choose to come up with a creative way to attract a clean, neat, orderly basement’ and I was gone for two weeks on vacation and when I came back I had a rat infestation in my basement and they had eaten practically…and it was a horrible mess.

I had to have exterminators to get the rats out and then somebody else come in and help me take out all the icky stuff. But out of it came a real clean shiny basement, but it was a horrible way to do it. It couldn’t be an accident I’d been living with a cluttered basement for five years and as soon as I tapped on coming up with a creative interesting way…I didn’t say fun.

Jessica Maya: That was interesting. You should have said clean and…

Lindsay Kenny: I had to tap on the rat poop and all of that and it was awful. That was the most disgusting way to do it. I wouldn’t recommend that at all.

Jessica Maya: So for everyone to avoid the rat poo, definitely follow Lindsay’s process. Be clear.

Lindsay Kenny: At least I got a clean basement out of it. Does that make sense?

Jessica Maya: It makes sense. I feel like with this process you can’t really lose because you keep asking yourself so many questions and especially at the end going again and saying ‘What’s the downside of it?’

Lindsay Kenny: What’s my resistance to owning this statement? I’ve had people say ‘What’s my resistance?’ Actually I make that statement and word it so that it just sounds perfect and that becomes their contract with themselves. Then I give that a number of a ten. When it’s exactly the way you want it you say ‘That’s at a ten.’ That’s the best possible outcome. I go ‘Where are you on the scale of one to ten? A zero being that’s a crock of crap that I don’t believe at all that I have a clean, orderly house.’ I don’t mean that they have it now but that that’s the possible.

Some people will be like at a five and say ‘I don’t know. I can’t quite see myself having that happen. I don’t know.’ I say ‘What do you think is in the way?’ It’s usually fear of failing, fear of succeeding and really getting it done, fear of it getting cluttered again, fear of rejection from somebody that won’t be happy because you clean out your house or something that’s in the way. It’s often limiting beliefs or negative thoughts or fears that are in the way of that. Then you tap those away.

Jessica Maya: It’s a great example too that this tapping is a process. You’re not gonna’ do one round of tapping and have a house. If you’ve had this clutter problem for a while take time for yourself and really go through this process and keep going through it. I feel like sometimes when people will say EFT didn’t work but it’s because they stopped right before they got to success.

Lindsay Kenny: All the time. People say ‘I feel a lot better.’ I’ve actually had practitioners that I’ve watched work and they will say to the client ‘That’s good, let’s move onto something else.’ Feeling better with EFT isn’t the objective, at least not for me. It’s having completely neutralized and then take it to positive. I want whatever the negative thing is completely gone. Let’s say it’s fear of having a completely clean house. Not only do you tap the fear down to a zero until there’s no charge at all, you then instill positive things of saying ‘I’m excited and fulfilled and have all this confidence and clarity about having a clean house’ or ‘I trust myself to do this. I trust myself to get it done in a timely way. I’m committed to doing it. I feel good about it.’ Your just tapping the positive statement in at every point and you do that all the time. Your staying focused on the positive. Focus on the positive.

Once you clear the negative it is important to state the negative as you’re clearing it up because you’re opening up the meridians. You’re stimulating the meridian system and causing those areas that are blocked to open up by focusing on the negative. Once it’s gone, I stay focused on the positive and what you want and tap in positive things. If somebody has a fear of public speaking we tap away the fear and then tap in them being confident and assured and trusting themselves, being articulate and whatever else. It’s not really any different from clutter. You stay focused on the positive outcome and the benefits from having things around you being clear and neat.

Jessica Maya: That’s really why you can try it on everything because it is all very similar. It seems to all be connected.

Lindsay Kenny: Right. At the end of my workshop, Level I in particular, we use that statement ‘Try it on everything’ at the end and so here’s what you do with EFT. Try it on everything. We list between Zoe, my partner that I do the workshops with, we can list just on ourselves a hundred different things that we’ve used it on…the most unusual weird things.

Jessica Maya: Oh, good. You’ll be giving me a lot of interviews then.

Lindsay Kenny: Right. I’ve come up with some amazing things. I have one lady that tapped on getting a cell phone signal and she swears that it worked. Even though you’re working with the body she was talking to Gary Craig. He can testify she was on Highway 5 and she lost her signal. She kept losing it and cutting Gary off so she finally tapped on getting the signal and she told Gary and sure enough maintained it until they finished their conversation. I thought was one of the weirdest ones I’ve heard.

Jessica Maya: There’s definitely some weird ones out there.

Lindsay Kenny: I know.

Jessica Maya: Lindsay, thank you so much. I know that I took a lot from that interview and I’m sure the listeners did too. Where can they learn more about you?

Lindsay Kenny: Thanks, Jessica. I enjoyed it too. My website is www.lkcoaching.com. ‘L’ as in Lindsay and ‘K’ as in Kenny coaching.com and on that I’ve provided a lot of information for people that’s free. Free downloads, audios, articles, links…I came up with a very clever creative name for that page called ‘Free Stuff.’ If you go on the website click on the ‘Free Stuff’ page and you’ll have access to a lot of information and then there’s also audios on the products. I think it’s called the ‘Products’ page and I have Frequently Asked Questions. Pages and pages and pages of questions that people ask such as ‘Does EFT work on whatever? Why do I say negative things? How do I know what to say? Why do you focus on the negative?’ We hear the same questions over and over so there are a hundred questions there I think about EFT, about me, about Gary Craig and the FAQ page. I’ve spent hundreds of hours building that website to help people learn and be proficient at EFT.

Jessica Maya: Great. I’ll be definitely checking it out again. I’m sure every time you go there you find something new.

Lindsay Kenny: I would think so. I add things every single day so it’s always evolving. Thank you, Jessica. This has been a lot of fun.

Jessica Maya: Thank you. And again, this is Jessica with Try It On Everything and like always we just truly hope that you found some new insights on how you can use EFT and now you can clear the clutter and create the life you deserve. Bye everyone.